Metabolic Syndrome and Cancer, Bingeing Whole Foods, Tired Vegetarian | THRR102

Metabolic Syndrome and Cancer, Bingeing Whole Foods, Tired Vegetarian | THRR102

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News topic du jour:

Association between metabolic syndrome and 13 types of cancer in Catalonia: A matched case-control study

Podcast Questions:

1. Hyper palatable perception of normal whole foods
Alex says:
Really odd case here:
A good friend of mine has struggled with binge eating to the point of burping up food for years.  A few years ago at my urging he got tested for sibo(for a collection of other symptoms) and was..very positive.  Now 3 years on he’s way better but still doesn’t experience palate fatigue with whole food meals unless he restricts to pure carnivore with no seasoning but salt.  What could be going on here?

2. Tired Vegetarian
Amerra says:
I am reaching out to you because I have no idea who I should talk to. I have endometriosis and just about 10 years ago read that going vegetarian would help my symptoms. I eased my way in and became a vegetarian. My symptoms did seem to alleviate and initially I felt great. I continued to be a vegetarian. I had two children (2016 & 2018). I understand that being a mom can be tiring however, I’m completely exhausted. I recently stumbled across someone talking about  the lion and the carnivore diets. They stated many of their health issues went into remission. I started researching fatigue and vegetarianism. There seems to be a connection. The problem is, I’ve been eating this way for so long that the idea of eating meat seriously grosses me out. This is not a moral issue for me or any other connection-just I’ve eaten this way so long. What do you recommend? Do you have any resources? Are there any health issues in addition to the obvious fatigue that I should get checked for? I would greatly appreciate anything you can share.

I did speak with a doctor about this and was evaluated for sleep apnea. The test came back with negative results. After this my doctor stopped following up. Also, to give further information, I am 36 years old. I have no other known health issues. I exercise frequently (although I have a broken back which prevents the type of intense exercise I used to do and love).

Thank you,



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Nicki: It’s time to make your health an act of rebellion. We’re tackling personalized nutrition, metabolic flexibility, resilient aging, and answering your diet and lifestyle questions. This is the only show with the bold aim to help one million people liberate themselves from the sick care system. You’re listening to The Healthy Rebellion Radio. The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary, or fitness change. Warning, when Rob gets passionate, he’s been known to use the occasional expletive. If foul language is not your thing, if it gets your britches in a bunch, well, there’s always Disney Plus.

Robb: I am Mr. Robb, your host. Welcome to Fantasy Podcast.

Nicki: Wrong show. Wrong show.

Robb: Yeah. Wrong century.

Nicki: Yeah.

Robb: You probably don’t even know what show-

Nicki: No, we already revealed this in a previous episode, where you had some sort of Fantasy Island-

Robb: Oh, okay. Ricardo Montalban-

Nicki: You did something and I didn’t-

Robb: … reference.

Nicki: … get it. Yeah. So, we-

Robb: Okay. But you remembered this one.

Nicki: But I remember because of that previous one. Okay.

Robb: That’s fair enough.

Nicki: Yes. This is Episode 102, ladies and gentlemen of The Healthy Rebellion Radio. We are coming to you from Kalispell, Montana on this fine, fine morning. We’ve got some sunshine, Robb and I have already had an epic battle about a song, this morning. So-

Robb: There’s no epic battle there. The only battle that existed was in your head. You insisted that it was this song.

Nicki: So I’m wearing a red-ish sweatshirt and red-ish, more like rust-ish, colored pants. And Robb, this morning, said… called me the Lady in Red. So, of course, I had to bust out my best “lady in red”. It was terrible. But, anyway-

Robb: It was even worse than that, because she’s been warming up. She’s been doing it all goddamn morning.

Nicki: I’ve been… So I somehow know all these lyrics, that I haven’t heard this song in decades. And I was like, “That has to be from a movie. Is it from Dirty Dancing?” And he’s-

Robb: No, you didn’t say from a movie, you said directly, “It’s part of Dirty Dancing,” like absolutely-

Nicki: No. I said, “It’s from a movie, and I think it’s Dirty Dancing.” But I couldn’t quite my finger on it. And, every time I was searching for it, I never heard of the Chris De Berg, or whatever, who’s the singer/songwriter. And I’m like, “I’ve never heard of this guy. How do I know this song?” But turns out I watched Pretty Woman more than a handful of times, as a kid, as a teenager. So that it where it came from.

Robb: Perfect.

Nicki: Yes, so. Now that, that’s settled…

Robb: Yeah.

Nicki: But Robb was so frustrated because I wouldn’t stop singing it that he told me the next time that we’re doing jiu jitsu, and he has me inside control, he’s going to be singing it to me while I’m pinned down.

Robb: As the room blacks out for you.

Nicki: All right. On to the actual-

Robb: That’s more like spousal abuse. Right? Like calling you wife and… Or is that just shifting it to physical abuse now?

Nicki: Yeah. Well, jiu jitsu is physical abuse. But it’s consensual.

Robb: Is it really though? Are you really wanting to go there, or am I forcing you?

Nicki: No, I am not… Well, this is another thing. It just depends. Right? Like, am I going into that position because it’s the path of least resistance, and I’m going to try to get into a better position, or are you forcing me into that?

Robb: Are you talking about jiu jitsu, writ large, or-

Nicki: I’m talking about jiu jitsu. Yeah, we’re talking about jiu jitsu you know, like guard opening and stuff. Sometimes it’s better to open it on your own terms, then let somebody open it for you.

Robb: Very true.

Nicki: So I don’t know, half of our audience is like, “What the hell are they talking about? We don’t do jiu jitsu, and we don’t get this.”

Robb: And, “We don’t care.”

Nicki: So we will move on to our actual regularly scheduled programming. Okay. I have some news from inside the Healthy Rebellion community. As we mentioned last week, the Internal Strength Program from Sarah and Grayson Strange, of Basis Health and Performance, New York, started this past Monday. It is a meaty, meaty program. And we’re super excited. Some folks are already saying that their body feels better, different. It’s definitely a different stimulus. And it’s a lot. So I just wanted to, first of all, say that it’s available in there. So, even if you didn’t join us to start on Monday, you can join us now and start at your leisure.

Nicki: And I also want to say, like with learning anything new, there is usually some new terminology. There’s definitely a lot of new movements. So, for those of you thinking about embarking on this, just take slow. You don’t have to do all five days of the programming in order, on pace, with the way that this program is written for The Health Rebellion. If you’re busy, if you’ve got different stuff going on, you can, kind of, take it slow, learn the movements, and then move forward. But I do think that the investment in learning this style of training, and learning specifically these capsule and rotational muscle movements, is going to pay huge, huge dividends.

Robb: I’m just trying to think of my best greasy, used car salesman pitch on this. And it’s been tough, at various points, for me to… Sometimes, you just get fuckin’ busy. You just want to work out. And this is one of the benefits of CrossFit. You don’t have to think. You just show up. You’ve literally take your frontal lobe, stick it in a jar, and then just go. And you just spas out, and you have seizures everywhere-

Nicki: And you’re sweating, and you feel-

Robb: And you’re sweating-

Nicki: … and you feel great-

Robb: … and you feel pretty good.

Nicki: … and you’re sore the next day. So you got your dose. Yep.

Robb: Yeah. And sometimes that’s right. But then, when you reach this point where your back is constantly tweaked and your shoulder’s constantly tweaked, and your pool of movement starts whittling you know, the aperture starts closing-

Nicki: Or, if you’ve had any significant injuries to any parts of your body and/or you’re aging…

Robb: Or you live in the… Yeah, if you’re still aging, if you still have the benefit of aging, you’re not dead yet. There’s just all these reasons not to do it. And it’s honestly… You know, the reasons to do it are very much like a two-marshmallows-later kind of gig. It really is because-

Nicki: Do you want to explain what two marshmallows later means?

Robb: Well, why don’t you? So it’s this whole concept that looked at children who were… They were trying to figure out ways of determining success with kids. And they looked at IQ and testability and all this stuff. And what they found was the ability to delay gratification was a big gain. I know that there’s actually been some pushback on the total voracity of this thing but, without a doubt, the ability to delay gratification is a major factor in success in life, just on a lot of levels.

Nicki: So the kids that said, “No, I’ll wait and have two marshmallows later, instead of taking the one right now”-

Robb: Tended to be-

Nicki: …tended to do… Yeah.

Robb: … disproportionately successful, in a host of different things. And there’s a lot of delayed gratification elements to this process. The first time you do cars, and pails, and rails, and whatnot, you’re kind of like, “I don’t know if this is doing anything.” It takes a little bit. Sometimes you feel better immediately, like sometimes, after you go through a good hip process.

Nicki: I would say, with cars, you feel better immediately. The main thing is it’s time-consuming to learn. You have to watch the videos. You-

Robb: It’s time-consuming-

Nicki: … go through the process-

Robb: … to learn. And you’re not breathing hard, and you’re not sweating, and you don’t feel like you got your dose. So it requires a very different mindset, to just give peace a chance, brother. You know? And, goddammit, I just can’t recommend it enough. I’m really struggling with how to paint this thing.

Robb: When I’m laying on my deathbed, I’m going to look back, and there’s going to be ancestral eating. And then there’s going to be meditation and breath work, that you introduced me to, that was profoundly life-altering. And I can’t really do enough of it. And it, for minimal investment, provides this shocking return. And the return tends to get better and better the more you invest in it. It’s compound interest. And that is the same story with this stuff.

Robb: But, similar to the compound interest story, on day one, when you stick your money in the bank and, if it’s compounding daily, even if there’s a time where it’s not negative interest rates, like now, and we’re just going to fucking hell in a hand basket. But day one of compound interest is really underwhelming. But day 1,000 of compound interest starts getting kind of interesting. And it’s, “Oh, wow. Okay.” And I guess that’s the framework that you’ve got to have. So, if you can wrap your head around a compound interest mindset, or framework, with this stuff, there’s going to be some up-front investment. There’s going to be a little bit of frustration. It’s definitely going to take you out of your comfort zone-

Nicki: There’s going to be time involved to just, kind of, learn the movements because it’s all new. Learn the terminology, the lexicon.

Robb: Yeah. But I don’t want to… I guess I’ll pull this card-

Nicki: I’ll just say… Well, actually I just want to say like with everything going on in the world, like we’ve talked about this a bunch and we’ve you know… You can’t do enough with regards to resiliency, and especially with your physical self. Like your health is all you have. If your health is not where you want it to be, if you’ve got joint pain, or you’ve got issues, you want to address it. Now is a good time to address it. There’s a lot going on in the world. And the more you can make yourself harder to kill, and just more resilient, just the better off you’ll be.

Robb: Sure. Sure. Yep.

Nicki: Okay. Is that all we want to say on that?

Robb: And so just remind folks about, they get the Internal Strength Program as part of the Healthy Rebellion membership. We get, three times a year resets that are nutrition, sleep, movement, and community-oriented, very much leaning on they, they can, they get the internal strength program as part of the healthy rebellion membership. We get three times a year resets you know, that are, are nutrition, sleep movement and community oriented, very much leaning on Wired to Eat, but this strong community element. We have other resets, all throughout the year-

Nicki: Lots of special cooking classes-

Robb: Grip strength, cooking classes, cold showers-

Nicki: It’s interviews and different things. So lots going on in there, but this is the one that’s happening right now. Sarah and Grayson are phenomenal. We trust them with our programming, our bodies. They are our go-to-

Robb: Let me put it this way. We are in the very privileged position that we could go to anybody in the world to get our strength and conditioning mobility needs met. And Sarah and Grayson are the people that we go to. So read into that as you will.

Nicki: Yep. And we’re super thankful that they are doing this for our community. And I know a lot of our community members also work with them one-on-one, and have seen amazing results. So anyway, I’m super excited to see. I know people have already said that they’re feeling better. They’ve had limited ankle mobility and they’re noticing things are already changing, and we’re only halfway through the first week. So I’m really excited to see how people what changes-

Robb: What they take away from it.

Nicki: … find, at the end of the 30 days.

Robb: Yeah.

Nicki: Yep. Okay, hubs, on to News Topics.

Robb: Yeah. So this is a matched case control study. The title is Association Between Metabolic Syndrome and 13 Types of Cancer in Catalonia. So it’s been quite some time that there’s been some degree of association between metabolic syndrome, obesity, which obesity doesn’t always track with metabolic syndrome. You can be you know, skinny-fat effectively, and be insulin-resistant and suffering metabolic syndrome. But by-and-large, obesity tracks with metabolic syndrome pretty tightly.

Robb: But there’s been a pretty good understanding that, in addition to a host of other issues, including neurological diseases like Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, dementia, cardiovascular disease, renal issues, non-alcoholic fatty liver, which is now the most common cause of liver transplant, I believe in the world or, at least, in the United States, on and on, on, there’s also this association with a known and growing pool of different types of cancers. So this is a study looking… It’s not a randomized control trial. We’re looking back at collected data. So we like to beat up on that stuff. And so maybe I’m being you know, selective in my highlighting this, and not highlighting other stuff.

Robb: But the basic takeaway from this piece was that, of the 13 common cancers that they looked at, 11 had remarkably high associations between prevalence and metabolic syndrome. And the more characteristics of metabolic syndrome that the individual expressed, which includes altered hip-to-waist ratio and dyslipidemia, altered blood sugar levels, hypertension… You know, there’s a couple other things that have come on. But the more of those that one has, the higher the likelihood of developing one or multiples of these, at least 11 types of, common cancers.

Robb: The additional part that I have to say about that is particularly within the ancestral health scene. There’s been a remarkable swath of folks who historically have advocated for Paleo type diets or maybe low-carb type diets and they’ve, for reasons that I can only speculate about, but that I think really relate to this virtue signaling Olympics kind of thing, have shifted their messaging to this kind of healthy-at-any-size story. And I think fat-shaming people is absolutely appalling, and ridiculous, and unacceptable. And that’s not what I’m talking about. But I also think that it is incredibly unethical for somebody who holds himself to be kind of a expert, or influencer in health and wellness, to lie to people and not point out the fact that they are higher risk for a host of different debilitating diseases and conditions that could shorten their life, damage their quality of life, at a minimum, making it harder, impossible to get life insurance, if somebody wanted to get life insurance, just as a complete aside.

Robb: So I’m going to start holding those folks more accountable on this stuff. I’ve been pretty hands-off, thus far. But I think that, as unpopular as it will be, and probably as not good as it will be for me, if we’re going to be in this scene. And I’m going to figure out a way to do this tactfully. But folks need to just be given the option.

Robb: Now, if people don’t want to change their diet and lifestyle, and they’re like, “I’m cool with what my risk profile is,” fine. That’s great. But lying to people about the severity of their situation, and the fact that they’re facing increased rates of cancer, diabetes, host of cardiovascular diseases, neuro-degenerative diseases, there’s just so much unethical crap there. And, particularly when you wrap this all up, and folks in this scene have just figured out a kind of a slipstream of virtue signaling to perpetuate their status. And, anyway. You got any thoughts, or should I just shut up, and call it good?

Nicki: Yeah. I mean, it’s obviously a sensitive topic. Like if you know somebody who… Let’s just say, if I was 300 pounds, and I knew that my weight was not healthy for me, you don’t want to be hearing it from every angle, especially if I’m really struggling with figuring out how to change it. Like, if I’ve tried every diet under the sun and, for whatever reason, I’m unable to stick to it because, maybe I live in a household where I have a husband who isn’t supportive of any changes, or I’ve got a job where I’ve got equally-overweight, or toxic, situations where… I don’t know. There’s a whole host of reasons-

Robb: Is that not the opportunity, though, for someone like these influencers, or what we do at The Health Rebellion, and be like, “That sucks. And we are here for you, and we’ll help you any”-

Nicki: Exactly. That’s what is needed. That is what is needed. And, as we know how powerful community is… Like, if your community is all people who eat similarly, and this could mean eating a typical standard American diet, and fast food, and lots of sugar, and refined oils, and all that kind of thing, it’s hard to be the different one. So, somehow, figuring out how to bring people into communities where the emphasis is on health, and how do I…

Robb: Support healthy change.

Nicki: … support healthy change, and get rid of the processed food, and go more to whole real foods. And the hard part is, I think, if you’re in a community where you’re not seeing any of the opportunity for health, it’s hard to pull yourself out. It’s hard to even know where to go. So-

Robb: But, again, I think that, that’s where these influencer types, it as-

Nicki: There’s a way that they could do… Yeah, I think, just by saying healthy-at-any-size, the message could be like, “Let’s find communities where we can make positive change. Not that there’s anything wrong with you, but we know that, if we can get you to a healthier… if we can get your blood lipids healthier, if we can remove some strain on your joints, everything improves.” Right?

Robb: If you want to.

Nicki: If you want to.

Robb: If you want to.

Nicki: Right.

Robb: Always, and if you want to, and I don’t want to belabor this too much. But it circles back around, ironically, to very much of what we’ve seen within the COVID experience. And the same people who are, now, lying to folks about this metabolic syndrome and the dangers that that poses for a host of different things, these are the same people that were fairly insistent that everybody should wear a mask. Everybody should get vaccinated, in this, kind of, uniform, one-size-fits-all thing. And there’s some irony, here, that, yet again, what I’m advocating for is choice, but honest goddamned choice.

Robb: And maybe our information will change. Maybe our information will update and we’ll be able to modify what we understand about this stuff. But, with our best understanding, right now, I think, it’s doing a remarkable disservice to lie to people about this stuff. And it’s incredibly unethical. And some pushback needs to happen with that.

Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yep.

Robb: Okay.

Nicki: I would agree. All right. The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our Salty AF Electrolyte Company, LMNT. And I know we’ve mentioned our Give A Salt program many times, where you can nominate your everyday heroes, and LMNT will hydrate them. Well, there’s another category of everyday hero that I think is often overlooked. And that is the category of moms, in particular, breast-feeding moms. And I came across a review from one of our verified customers on the Drink LMNT website. This is from Kaylee. And her review says, “A must for breastfeeding. Besides absolutely loving LMNT before being pregnant and breastfeeding, I love it even more now. Not only do I look forward to drinking it each day, but I true believe this is one of the main reasons I have such a great supply. I mix some in a 36-ounce bottle and sip on it throughout the morning. My favorites are Watermelon, Citrus, Orange, and Raspberry, mixed with a whole lemon. Such an amazing product.”

Nicki: And I know we’ve chatted about this before. And there’s lots of folks in our community who have seen pretty dramatic milk supply increases when having an adequate intake of sodium. And LMNT, clearly, is one way to get that extra sodium. So, I think, if you know any moms, any soon-to-be mothers, breastfeeding moms who could use a little help in that department, I think they would be a wonderful person to nominate for our Give a Salt program.

Nicki: As someone who really struggled breastfeeding our first child, I just could not get her to latch, and ended up exclusively pumping for 11 months, and knowing just the stress and the anguish, and just the frustration when milk supply isn’t… when it starts dropping off and you’re trying every possible thing that every forum on breastfeeding and milk supply online says. If I had only known if I had boosted my salt intake that I could’ve had… I might’ve-

Robb: Markedly better-

Nicki: … had a markedly different outcome, then, that would’ve just been lifesaving. And let’s face it. Moms are here. So you can go to That’s drink L-M-N-T dot com, slash, give a salt, and nominate your everyday hero. Okay. We’ve got two questions today, for this Episode 102, 102 with two questions.

Robb: Oh, my goodness.

Nicki: This first one is from Alex. He has a question about hyper palatable perception of normal whole foods. He says, “Really odd case here. Good friend of mine has struggled with binge eating to the point of burping up food for years. A few years ago, at my urging, he got tested for SIBO, and a collection of other symptoms, and was very positive. Now, three years on, he’s way better, but still doesn’t experience palate fatigue with whole food meals, unless he restricts to pure carnivore, with no seasoning but salt. What could be going on here?”

Robb: I really don’t know. I mean, we’ve had some interesting clients that seemingly had no, or very little, off switch, I think, habituating to years of big eating. Yeah, folks like people who played football. And I see this frequently in males and I’m kind of reading it. It does say he-

Nicki: He… Yeah. He’s-

Robb: Yeah. I see this more in males than females. And it’s like maybe they were an athlete at one time, rugby, football, American football, in particular. They eat a lot. They’re big. And you just kind of habituate to eating a shit ton of food. And then maybe you develop some health problems and you become more sedentary. But you just have this like back-of-your-head deal that you’re supposed to eat a lot. I think that, that’s a piece to it.

Robb: There could be a piece to this, too, that this person may just be a couple of standard deviations outside the norm, with regards to appetite control. Maybe this is where a little bit of genetic testing… I remember talking to Diana Rodgers about this, and some different folks who seemed to have really minimal appetite control. And they did, in fact, have some of the genes that are associated with low reward activity with regards to eating. So they don’t feel that satiety. There’s still that drive to eat. So, could be some genetic components. Could be some learned kind of psychosocial components to this. Might be a combination of both. But I don’t know precisely what’s going on here. But, clearly, this is where being flexible with what one is up to is handy because, if he’s experiencing significant health problems and some sort of carnivore-ish thing might provide some lane lines, then maybe this is something that he could stick really closely to for six months, and then start introducing a little more variety and see if that works. But yeah, that’s my best stab at that.

Nicki: Okay. And he says he doesn’t experience palate fatigue. But I’m wondering if… When I read palate fatigue, it’s sort of like you know, “Okay, I don’t want another bite of that thing.” But I’m wondering if he’s feeling full, like that satiety, or do you equate them as the same thing?

Robb: I’m reading it as satiety.

Nicki: Okay. You’re reading it as… Okay.

Robb: Yeah.

Nicki: All right. Our second question is from Amira. And she is a tired vegetarian. “Robb, I’m reaching out to you because I have no idea who I should talk to. I have endometriosis and, just about 10 years ago, read that going vegetarian would help my symptoms. I eased my way in and became a vegetarian. My symptoms did seem to alleviate and initially I felt great. I continued to be a vegetarian. I had two children, in 2016 and 2018. And I understand that being a mom can be tiring. However, I’m completely exhausted.

Nicki: “I recently stumbled across someone talking about the Lion and the Carnivore Diets. They stated many of their health issues went into remission. I started researching fatigue and vegetarianism, and there seems to be a connection. The problem is I’ve been eating this way for so long that the idea of eating meat seriously grosses me out. This is not a moral issue for me, or any other connection. Just I’ve eaten this way so long. What do you recommend? Do you have any resources? Are there any health issues, in addition to the obvious fatigue, that I should get checked for? I would greatly appreciate anything you can share.

Nicki: “I did speak with a doctor about this and was evaluated for sleep apnea. The test came back with negative results. After this, my doctor stopped following up. Also, to give further information, I’m 36 years old, no other known health issues. I exercise frequently, although I have a broken back, which prevents the type of intense exercise I used to do and love.”

Robb: Man, first, couple of things here. The associate… I guess, one thing is vegetarian can mean a lot of different things. It could mean dairy and fish, and some people even say chicken and-

Nicki: Or eggs.

Robb: … or eggs. And I think that, with the inclusion of, at least, sea food, I think you could probably make a good go of things with that. The term, vegetarian, is just super nebulous as to what it means. In general, folks who have had like meat aversion, in the past, usually like a soup or a stew, or something where the meat’s cut up very small, and it’s just, kind of, incidental to the meal as an easier way to get back into that, versus a steak.

Nicki: So the endometriosis part, too, like you’ve talked about this a lot. It’s typically a-

Robb: It’s an insulin-

Nicki: … a blood sugar-

Robb: Yeah, it’s an insulin-resistance deal. Some of the folks in the autoimmune scene look at it as autoimmune. And I think it certain has some autoimmune underpinnings. But, in my experience, I would put it like a 80/20, 90/10 insulin resistance/autoimmunity. I think the autoimmunity is secondary to the insulin resistance, which is another one of these ironic features, that the autoimmune Paleo scene is completely ideologically against carnivore and keto. And there’s all kinds of pseudo scientific crap that comes out of that scene around the stuff, when it’s a really powerful therapeutic tool for dealing with these issues, particularly, if you’re wanting to deal with an autoimmune issue that is driven by insulin resistance. And you should tackle the insulin resistance first, and then maybe you deal with the autoimmunity secondary to that. And this is definitely been what I’ve seen. One of the first medical interventions that is offered for endometriosis is Metformin, which is managing insulin resistance, in a manner of speaking. So, that seems like a really smart way to go with this.

Robb: And low carb isn’t the only way to deal with insulin resistance. And I can’t emphasize that enough. If somebody figures out a way of doing a low-fat, low-calorie diet, adequate protein, and they lose some body weight, again, then we can get back to enhanced insulin signaling, or improved in insulin signaling. Just in my experience, it seems to be easier to get people to tackle this from the lower carb side. We tend to have better satiety. We seem to see better blood glucose regulation which, again, ties into the satiety. And there needs to typically be some amount of body weight loss to an… And it doesn’t need to be massive. But a little shift in that direction is really, really powerful in restoring proper insulin sensitivity. And the insulin sensitivity ends up being this major driver in alleviating problems like endometriosis, which involves both liver dysfunction and also the effects on like the estrogen, progesterone, testosterone axes as it relates to insulin signaling.

Robb: So the cool thing about a lower carb diet is kind of a one-stop shop to get that. And, again, this could be with fish, or fish and eggs you know, and so-

Nicki: I would think that, starting with maybe some bone broth and, like Robb mentioned, soups. You can puree. And I guess it would depend-

Robb: That’s a great idea.

Nicki: Is it just like the sight of the meet? You know, a log of times, vegetarians, in the beginning, when they’re making the transition, the sight of raw meat, or handling raw meet, is sort off-putting. But, if you were able to cook it and then blend it in a blender, so it’s more like a puree… We had some friends visiting this last weekend. And they had a nine-month-old with them, and he’s eating solids. And Robb made him this… He took some soup bones, cooked them down, and added some carrots and green beans and pureed it all up. And he loved it. So maybe figuring out a way, so you’re not looking at it, if the appearance of it is what is the most off-putting for you.

Nicki: The other thing that occurs to me is, oftentimes, pictures of meat that we see conventionally, look… especially if you have this frame of mind that meat is bad or you’ve had that, for a while. When you’re vegetarian, you, kind of, think like, “Meat’s not for me. It’s not a food for me.” Is going the opposite direction with the meat food porn?

Nicki: There’s two gals on Instagram that I absolutely adore. One of them is Conscious Carnivore. And she was vegetarian. Or, actually, I think she may have been vegan and went carnivore, gosh, I think about three years ago. But she has some of the most amazing pictures of the animal foods that she eats. And I think she lives in either like Sweden, or somewhere in Europe. And she’ll occasionally post before-and-after pictures. She used to be kind of inflamed and puffy and didn’t feel good, when she was vegan. And now she just is the most glowing picture of health. And what she prepares for her food, and where she sources her food, and it’s just… I don’t know.

Robb: Pretty remarkable.

Nicki: I feel… It’s really remarkable. Her photographs are great. I think it might help pull you in to like, “Wow, this is vibrant. This is healing. This is healthy. And it might shift that, meat is gross… Help phase that out and take you into a place where you might view it differently. So her handle is Conscious Carnivore.

Nicki: Then, the other one is Slowdown Farmstead. So this is a friend of mine who’ve we talked about multiple times, on the podcast. And she was very, very sick with Lyme disease, and other things, and has found a way to heal herself with food. And she is almost 100% carnivore. And they raise and harvest the heir own food. And she has just an amazing gift of talking about the land, and her animals, and how it comes to be food that nourishes her and her family. And the pictures are gorgeous.

Nicki: Again, I think, just kind of, seeking out some of the beauty, and the wholesomeness of meet, some imagery around that might help shift away from the idea that meat is gross. I don’t know. Just-

Robb: No. I like it. I like. She asked a little bit around resources. You provided some great resources.

Nicki: Is there anything else she should get checked for?

Robb: I mean, you can do like a B-vitamin test, and iron, and zinc, and stuff like that. But I really feel like just getting in and doing… I think that seeking out some of these resources you mentioned. If you want to look into introduction of meat, like the puree-

Nicki: Does Diana still have her course?

Robb: Vegan recovery guide? I think so. Diana Rogers? Yeah, she might have-

Nicki: She put together with Robin… Robb helped her. And they put together a sort of a vegan, vegetarian recovery guide that they had right after the release of Sacred Cow, because kind of expected, or were hoping, that there would be people that wanted to shift back towards a meat-inclusive diet. So that could be helpful too. We will look for that. And, if we can find it, we’ll put a link in the show notes to that.

Robb: I’m not seeing it. But yeah, maybe we could… Maybe reaching out to-

Nicki: I think it had a different title. We’ll ask Diana. And, if that’s still available, we’ll link to that in the show notes. But that might be helpful, too. There were actually several former vegetarians and vegans who, I believe, were interviewed, or contributed to that, too. So that might be helpful.

Nicki: But yeah, I think starting with, maybe, some broth, some bone broth, and whatever type of animal product you find the least offensive, whether that’s fish, or shrimp, or chicken, whatever that is, and just slowly, even just small amounts, kind of, incorporating that back in.

Robb: Yeah. I like that.

Nicki: You like that? And I think that is it for today. Any final parting thoughts? Just want to say, love the people in your life. The world is a crazy place.

Robb: Yeah. There was a lot going on. Like we didn’t even really dig into the bigger Ukrainian/Russian War, and gas prices spiraling out of control. Some things, kind of, emerging around the vaccine manufacturers that seems to be very interesting, and also concerning. I just, the other… Well, it was yesterday. I kind of looked at Nicki, and I’m like, “I’m so fuckin’ overwhelmed.” Like, I want to help. I know you folks are spending your time listening to us. And I try to do some stuff on Substack and try to provide some value. But there’s so much shit coming at us so quickly. And I don’t even know how to stay on top of it, now. It’s almost like I need to be… You know, when people get into fitness, they specialize in one area.

Robb: Like Elizabeth told me that there’s a woman who is now specializing in public speaking for fitness professionals. It’s like, Fit to Speak. And it’s great. It’s brilliant. I checked out her stuff. It’s really cool stuff. But you got to find this niche. And I, kind of, feel like I need my doomsday niche. It’s like, “Okay, I’m only going to focus on energy sector disruption that’s going… or devaluation of the dollar in hyperinflation,” or something. You know, it’s like the 50 different things going on that are really concerning, and really important.

Robb: In some ways, we individually don’t have a ton of control over any of it. But I think it’s another one of those situations where, just being aware that there’s something going on and then you can make some backstop preparations, but also just being aware that something could happen is so powerful for resilience because you’re not surprised. It’s like, “Okay, I knew that the dollar could devalue, and there’s these implications,” or like gas could be at $10 a gallon. And what are the implications for that?

Robb: So yeah. I’m feeling it. I’m experiencing it. I don’t really entirely know what to do. And the one thing that I have taken away, what’s come back more and more and more interestingly, is that I need to focus locally. And, although I can and will continue to help in any way that I can in this kind of broader format, my sense is that all of us would be really smart to devote significant time and energy into shoring up our own resiliency, building connections within our communities, and helping our community resiliency. And then these online interactions are for a kick in the pants, a course correction, and for some information that we can implement to bring back to our local communities. And I really think that, that’s where we need to go.

Nicki: Okay. Well, thank you all for joining us for another episode of The Health Rebellion Radio. Be sure to check out our show sponsor, Drink LMNT, at R-O-B-B, slash Robb. Remember to nominate your moms for our Give a Salt Program, at And I think that’s it. Hope you all have a fabulous weekend. If it’s sunny where you are, get out and get some-

Robb: Much-needed sun.

Nicki: … light on your skin, in your eyes, and have a fabulous weekend. And we’ll see you all next week.

Robb: Bye, everybody.


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